Topics

Mirador Astronomy Village Living Accommodations #poll

David Oesper
 
Edited

As currently planned, Mirador Astronomy Village will provide several options for housing, including a cohousing community, apartments, a sharehouse, and RV park. All residents will rent. If you were to live in Mirador Astronomy Village someday (hypothetically speaking, at this early stage), please select the housing accommodations that would be acceptable to you, keeping in mind that as you go down the list, the monthly rent will get higher (unless, of course, you provide your own RV). Feel free to choose more than one option. This poll applies to both full-time and part-time residents.

Results

Lissa Bengtson
 

The poll only let me choose one option. 

Lissa

David Oesper
 

OK, last communication on this for today. I joined the group managers forum and this is a bug that was reported today. Some recent updates broke this feature. So for now, you'll only be able to select one choice. I'll fix this as soon as groups.io fixes their problem. Sorry about the inconvenience.

David Oesper
 

Hi Lissa et al.,

Groups.io fixed the problem, and you can now choose multiple options. Even if you have already voted, you can go in and add or change your choices.

I will leave this poll open indefinitely, and you should be able to see the poll results at any time. The identity of who voted for what will not be visible, so you can vote with anonymity.

Since I am not able to add a "free text" response to this poll, if you look at this and think "none of the above" please reply in private or to the group as to what choices you would like me to add, and I will add them.

Please vote! Even if you are peripherally involved with this group, your opinion is important!

Thanks,

David Oesper

Sharon Villines
 

This may be a duplicate question, but why rentals? How will you finance construction? What cohousing groups do is presell the units. Then the construction loan is based on those contracts. When the units close (or lots if you are doing RVs or tents), you pay back the construction loan. With additional sales you start again to build more and to build common spaces.

Sharon

On Jun 9, 2020, at 5:41 PM, David Oesper via groups.io <oesper@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

A poll has been updated:


As currently planned, Mirador Astronomy Village will provide several options for housing, including a cohousing community, apartments, a sharehouse, and RV park. All residents will rent. If you were to live in Mirador Astronomy Village someday (hypothetically speaking, at this early stage), please select the housing accommodations that would be acceptable to you, keeping in mind that as you go down the list, the monthly rent will get higher (unless, of course, you provide your own RV). Feel free to choose more than one option. This poll applies to both full-time and part-time residents.


1. Private tent only - all other spaces and facilities shared
2. Private RV used as a bedroom - all other spaces and facilities shared
3. Private bedroom - all other spaces and facilities shared
4. Private RV used as a bedroom with a toilet - all other spaces and facilities shared
5. Private bedroom with a toilet - all other spaces and facilities shared
6. Private RV used as a bedroom with a toilet and bathing facilities - all other spaces and facilities shared
7. Private bedroom with a toilet and bathing facilities - all other spaces and facilities shared
8. Private RV used as a bedroom with a toilet, bathing facilities, kitchen, and dining area - all other spaces and facilities shared
9. Private apartment with with a bedroom, bathroom, kitchen, and dining area - all other spaces and facilities shared
10. Private RV used as a bedroom with a toilet, bathing facilities, kitchen, dining area, and laundry - all other spaces and facilities shared
11. Private apartment with a bedroom, bathroom, kitchen, dining area, and laundry - all other spaces and facilities shared
12. Private home with one bedroom and one bathroom - access to all shared facilities
13. Private home with two bedrooms and one bathroom - access to all shared facilities
14. Private home with two bedrooms and two bathrooms - access to all shared facilities
15. Private home with three bedrooms and two bathrooms - access to all shared facilities
16. Private home with four bedrooms and two bathrooms - access to all shared facilities

Vote Now

Do not reply to this message to vote in the poll. You can vote in polls only through the group's website.


maxeem
 

I can't answer the "why" for anyone else, but I can maybe manage to answer a potential "how".

The form of rental that worked for us (my intentional community is a co-op, now celebrating its 80th year) was to have each resident own a share of the place which was owned cooperatively. We set the rent price ourselves and paid this monthly rent to ourselves in order to fund the various departments of the house such as supplies, food, repairs, etc. (a small amount of funds also came from payments from busy folx to cover their missed chores). No position was paid, but you were required to have a position to live there.

The recruitment manager(s)'s job, for example, was to keep track of who was going to move in or move out and find new people to replace those moving out (when there wasn't a waiting list, and it would comfortably vacillate between too few and too many people wanting to populate the place).

We paid such affordable rent for room & board, which allowed each of us to spend more time valuing each other and pursuing our individual dreams, rather than working ourselves just to barely afford housing or re-purchase dozens of things that make more sense to share. And yet, despite the affordability, with 29 residents we always had savings every month, and last decade we repaired our extension, installed new windows, and redid the stucco (Something like $200k+).

So it's a strangely effective system. If you set it up right. Insurance was set up and handled by a company connected to the father of one of the original members. When you pay your first rent and deposit you become an owner. There is no equity. And the shares do nothing presently, and everyone is happy to just contribute now, but at one time in the past you were issued a lovely little certificate of stock. (Still some of these sitting around in the finance closet somewhere). The purpose of these was to track a small dividend returned to renters each year that gradually was forgotten about or dispensed with.

How it was founded was the coop got a loan from another cooperative or two in the 1930s which they paid back. The coop group (created by a woman naturally!) swooped in and bought a frat house that had recently gone bankrupt due to mismanagement.

I would guess with a sharehouse you could have a different loaning partner that is less likely to decline than a bank, such as the larger ecovillage community's own bank. Or this "funding" thing may be a moot issue if its worked into the site plan.

I'd be happy to explain anything else about my home community, and how it handled various inevitable troubles that societies are bound to encounter. I miss it all the time. Feels like such a natural way to live for me as opposed to considering what I would have to do to consider traditional home ownership.

<3

Max


On 6/9/20 5:53 PM, Sharon Villines via groups.io wrote:
This may be a duplicate question, but why rentals? How will you finance construction? What cohousing groups do is presell the units. Then the construction loan is based on those contracts. When the units close (or lots if you are doing RVs or tents), you pay back the construction loan. With additional sales you start again to build more and to build common spaces.

Sharon

On Jun 9, 2020, at 5:41 PM, David Oesper via groups.io <oesper@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

A poll has been updated:


As currently planned, Mirador Astronomy Village will provide several options for housing, including a cohousing community, apartments, a sharehouse, and RV park. All residents will rent. If you were to live in Mirador Astronomy Village someday (hypothetically speaking, at this early stage), please select the housing accommodations that would be acceptable to you, keeping in mind that as you go down the list, the monthly rent will get higher (unless, of course, you provide your own RV). Feel free to choose more than one option. This poll applies to both full-time and part-time residents.


1. Private tent only - all other spaces and facilities shared
2. Private RV used as a bedroom - all other spaces and facilities shared
3. Private bedroom - all other spaces and facilities shared
4. Private RV used as a bedroom with a toilet - all other spaces and facilities shared
5. Private bedroom with a toilet - all other spaces and facilities shared
6. Private RV used as a bedroom with a toilet and bathing facilities - all other spaces and facilities shared
7. Private bedroom with a toilet and bathing facilities - all other spaces and facilities shared
8. Private RV used as a bedroom with a toilet, bathing facilities, kitchen, and dining area - all other spaces and facilities shared
9. Private apartment with with a bedroom, bathroom, kitchen, and dining area - all other spaces and facilities shared
10. Private RV used as a bedroom with a toilet, bathing facilities, kitchen, dining area, and laundry - all other spaces and facilities shared
11. Private apartment with a bedroom, bathroom, kitchen, dining area, and laundry - all other spaces and facilities shared
12. Private home with one bedroom and one bathroom - access to all shared facilities
13. Private home with two bedrooms and one bathroom - access to all shared facilities
14. Private home with two bedrooms and two bathrooms - access to all shared facilities
15. Private home with three bedrooms and two bathrooms - access to all shared facilities
16. Private home with four bedrooms and two bathrooms - access to all shared facilities

Vote Now

Do not reply to this message to vote in the poll. You can vote in polls only through the group's website.


David Oesper
 

Sharon,

Asking “why rentals?” you’ve touched upon an essential feature of Mirador Astronomy Village. I will speak to that, but first a few words about location.

Despite our best efforts to contain it, light pollution is getting worse almost everywhere. It is getting increasingly difficult to find places to live that are not significantly affected by it, and they are usually not only rural but remote.

My dream with Mirador is to help create a community in a (necessarily) remote area with a pristine view of the night sky and a natural nighttime environment that can be enjoyed and appreciated each and every night—something that is simply not available within the perpetual twilight “fog” in our cities and towns.

Why rental? Because I believe strongly that everyone who wants to live at Mirador should be able to afford to live at Mirador. Increasingly, retirees are renting instead of owning their homes. And, for young people, home ownership is out of reach for many and they must rent.

Many astronomy-enthusiasts I know (myself included) would never be able to afford a $300K-$400K home, would never be able to buy a piece of land and build a new house on it, and would never be able to have two homes, one in “civilization” and one in a remote area.

Mirador Astronomy Village as we envision it (https://miradorastrovillage.org/mirador.pdf) would function best as a proprietary community and that requires that everyone living there rents. Bennett can best explain the many advantages of a proprietary community, but for me the most important benefit is that it will be easy for people to move in and move out as life circumstances change. Want to give Mirador a trial run? Easy. Getting on in years and need to move closer to family? Easy. And so on.

How to finance an all-rental development? I’ve been asking myself that question almost every day for the past several months. It is certainly the most difficult problem we need to solve before we can move this project forward. I don’t have the answer yet.

I know that in cities, all-rental developments get built all the time. Apartment buildings, for example, and now, more recently, build-to-rent (B2R) neighborhoods where all the new homes are rental. How are they financed? Is there any way to apply those financing methods to a small development in a remote area?

Dave

David Oesper
 

One clarification about # of bedrooms in the poll. A bedroom would be any room that could be used as a bedroom, or for some other purpose such as an office or hobby room. The size of some or all of the bedrooms may be smaller in the Mirador cohousing community than in a "typical" largish single family home. Not necessarily so, but they could be.

Dave

Bennett Jones
 

Dave,
Another point of consideration - If Mirador follows the LC Model, there is no reason to have "guest" Bed Rooms, as extra are available on site for rental as needed. The same would hold for someone who plans to expand their family size at some point in the future, you may wait and add additional adjoining Bed Rooms only when and as needed. And remember, any resident may rent a private office in the Administration Building or a private room in the Shop Building. There could be less than completely private versions of Office and Hobby Room that could be available at reduced cost. These could also be available for short term use, on an as needed basis (great for projects of limited duration). Presumably some residents would at times travel away from Mirador. Think about not having to pay rent on guest Bed Rooms, Office, Hobby Room, extra Bath Rooms, etc. while you are off on a four week trip (and having the option to rent out your own Bed Room if you are going to be away - things happen).

Bennett

On Monday, June 15, 2020, 06:12:14 PM CDT, David Oesper via groups.io <oesper@...> wrote:


One clarification about # of bedrooms in the poll. A bedroom would be any room that could be used as a bedroom, or for some other purpose such as an office or hobby room. The size of some or all of the bedrooms may be smaller in the Mirador cohousing community than in a "typical" largish single family home. Not necessarily so, but they could be.

Dave